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Author	Topic: 2 Different Accounts Of Creation in Genesis 1 & 2	Topic is locked Back to Topics

timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Nov 28, 2007 3:19:58 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse Why?

timothyu

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Winnipeg

Posts:14,679
Points:175,385
Joined:May 2006

Message Posted: Nov 28, 2007 3:19:58 PM

Ignore timothyu Report Abuse

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timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 2:56:45 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse Please note it is not my intension to point out any person or any group but merely to point out human ways versus how I see the example was set by Jesus.
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,728 Points:3,310,610 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 2:44:25 PM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse timothyu - Accolades!
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 1:29:44 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse Well again, is it not by example and gently giving credit to God instead of saying "you should do this"?
mexicomaria Champion Author Minnesota Posts:24,110 Points:1,354,365 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 1:27:33 PM Ignore mexicomaria Report Abuse I am talking about non believers...who are colleages, neighbors, should add family and friends.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 1:22:44 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse ""How many have the nerve to stand for Christ alone and deny the ways of the world." I think we deny Christ daily if we do not stand up for Him with friends, neighbors, and colleages. To die to self daily and follow Him." Going around patting each other on the back in support of one's faith may be encouraging but it accomplishes little else. I believe Jesus said the trick was to get out amongst the non-believers and set an example by doing unto others even if they won't do it to you.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 1:19:30 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse "A fundamental error is the denial of the reality of the incarnation..To deny the Son is to deny the Father.." Even Satan and Legion did not deny this.
mexicomaria Champion Author Minnesota Posts:24,110 Points:1,354,365 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 1:18:22 PM Ignore mexicomaria Report Abuse "How many have the nerve to stand for Christ alone and deny the ways of the world." I think we deny Christ daily if we do not stand up for Him with friends, neighbors, and colleages. To die to self daily and follow Him.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 1:18:07 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse '3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." As FOX news did today. See Christianity in the News where God is now lumped in with ghosts and other entities commonly associated with the supernatural. One more sign of what is coming.
mexicomaria Champion Author Minnesota Posts:24,110 Points:1,354,365 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 1:14:31 PM Ignore mexicomaria Report Abuse oopss vs 1-2 got lost..I will try again. 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. A fundamental error is the denial of the reality of the incarnation..To deny the Son is to deny the Father..
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 1:02:40 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:1-3 Read that? Even though already in the world. Not some sudden coming event but quietly building. What happens when the false religion in combination with government is the platform of the anti-christ. What happens when people vehemently defend their religion and government (both worldly institutions)over confessing allegiance to Jesus only, which of course will get them interred or killed, as it is written. How many have the nerve to stand for Christ alone and deny the ways of the world. What do we now call these besides traitors and crackpots?
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 12:53:39 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse "They already knew about sin and that they were powerless to stop sinning." Sorry, but the only people alive that don't understand that are those who can't recognize it. We call them psychopaths.
mexicomaria Champion Author Minnesota Posts:24,110 Points:1,354,365 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 12:44:43 PM Ignore mexicomaria Report Abuse 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 1 John 4:1-3 Today is a study in 1 John.....We do have instruction in the Bible in the above verses to know how to make a distinction between a false religion and one that follows Christ. So we do have to make some "judgements."
geekguy Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,504 Points:1,317,095 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 12:39:21 PM Ignore geekguy Report Abuse timothyu, our Lord Jesus Christ was preaching and presenting to the Jews - those who knew the scriptures. We are in a time where most people have very little if any ACCURATE knowledge of the Bible. They usually think, for example, that heaven is available based on a preponderance of good works. The Bible of course teaches nothing of the sort; it is only through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ that we are saved. So if we presented exactly as Jesus did, we'd be presenting a good message to an audience not ready to hear it. They already knew about sin and that they were powerless to stop sinning. Nowadays that knowledge is not common.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 12:30:36 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse "God's word states we can know if we are saved." Even so, does that not mean we, not anybody else? Would that not be a case of judge not lest you be judged once you look to others? The way that so many try and get the idea of salvation across to others is often so in your face that I would bet it repels more than it attracts. How many preach the message of Jesus while failing to deliver it as He did? It's a combined effort.
mexicomaria Champion Author Minnesota Posts:24,110 Points:1,354,365 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 12:19:05 PM Ignore mexicomaria Report Abuse "Ultimately it is God who will decide who is saved and it is not our right to make assumptions here of who will be saved and who will not." God's word states we can know if we are saved. "13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life," 1 John 5:13 Once again..is another man's Christian walk a reason or good excuse for you not to come to Christ. For the unsaved this is not about my sin, or some other man's sin...it is about YOUR sin and what are you going to do with THE Christ. It is so easy to use others as an excuse to step around salvation...That other Christian's sin kept me from following Christ. Blaming others doesn't work in a court of law and it won't work with Christ. [Edited by: mexicomaria at 1/27/2008 3:19:36 PM EST]
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 12:01:52 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse I might add.. we were created to live in harmony in the Garden, here even, not heaven. When this world is gone and a new one made it will still be here, not heaven so if we can't get it right now, what makes man think he will be wanted in the next one?
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 11:59:22 AM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse After viewing the clip, is it not man most in need of balance and of a God and religion that accomplishes this? Yet even though God is placed in front of them man continues to bash around like a bull in a china shop, scrapping with each other and nature, destroying instead of living in balance, obviously learning nothing of the instructions handed down by God yet claiming they are saved.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 11:54:09 AM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse How do intelligent mammals differ? Who is the less destructive?
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 11:50:32 AM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse rjhenn said.. Or so they can declare "I'm saved and you aren't"? Sad but true. it's not a matter of saying you are on the right team because it is a one on one game and it all depends on how you personally are playing it. Claiming you hold the trophy accomplishes nothing. Ultimately it is God who will decide who is saved and it is not our right to make assumptions here of who will be saved and who will not. Walk the walk is far more revealing than talk the talk, and to those who fail to treat others as they would be treated as was the law given to them, have no right to stand themselves out as an example but to merely set the example. Arrogance and pride are some of the lawlessness that Jesus spoke of when He said He wouldn't know ye. "And isn't that still true of most of those who take the 'spiritual' path?" Absolutely. The path is narrow. "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." . Even though the Bible states to Christians that they cannot serve two masters they continually mix the ways of the world with the ways of God. Man continually justifies man's ways using religion as an excuse yet oddly few justify Christianity using man's ways as an excuse other than to be saved from them. "In the end, it's all a matter of balance." As I have said many times here. Man is the only creature that is out of balance with this world, unable to live in harmony, destroying in order to create useless monuments or tributes to himself. The Hebrews claimed it was man falling out of balance with plants and animals that was the sin of the Garden. In doing so we became out of balance with God who embodied all three in perfect balance.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 27, 2008 11:16:53 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse timothyu - "Don't most people expect something in return when being mindful of the world or others, even if it is just expecting recognition or to be liked? Don't most people who give expect even to just feel good about themselves?" Or so they can declare "I'm saved and you aren't"? "Is not the way of the world to judge success in what is accomplished or attained instead of what was sacrificed, given up in order that someone else may benefit?" And isn't that still true of most of those who take the 'spiritual' path? "For those who have listened to Jesus, He didn't say it was all about you and what you could receive, but He said, to give. If you want salvation... save someone else. He did. Not many do, being caught up in the ways of the world and seeing even the scriptures as being about betterment of self." Well, the OT was mostly about survival and historical traditions. And it is a truism that you have to take care of yourself in order to be able to adequately do for others. In the end, it's all a matter of balance.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 7:31:01 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse "To start, why is it that "To be mindful of the world is to be mindful of oneself"? Why couldn't it make you mindful of the world around you, or mindful of others?" Most of us try don't we. Yet in the process, does it not often come off as being a trade of sorts? Don't most people expect something in return when being mindful of the world or others, even if it is just expecting recognition or to be liked? Don't most people who give expect even to just feel good about themselves? Are humans capable of giving unconditionally? Rarely, no matter what we think of ourselves. Look around you. Is not the way of the world to judge success in what is accomplished or attained instead of what was sacrificed, given up in order that someone else may benefit? "Second, does "To be mindful of oneself is to see oneself as a god" seem logical to anyone else?" Again one of the biggest concepts is this idea of self. From that has come a movement which has been around since the beginning of time and booming today about believing and you shall accomplish or receive, the power of positive thinking which even some churches teach, better living through being what you can be (instead of what you can make of someone else). Us against them in hope of victory. Pride, ambition, all focused on self or yours with you as provider. How many people, when they have accomplish things take credit? How many say it was only because others showed me how? How many say I did it? How many, even when praying, ask for the power so they can ward off disease or disaster instead of asking it be done for them, or to be channeled through them? No. We think we have the power, mini gods being taught believe and the world is at your feet. For those who have listened to Jesus, He didn't say it was all about you and what you could receive, but He said, to give. If you want salvation... save someone else. He did. Not many do, being caught up in the ways of the world and seeing even the scriptures as being about betterment of self.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 6:30:03 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Well, it falls apart at several points. To start, why is it that "To be mindful of the world is to be mindful of oneself"? Why couldn't it make you mindful of the world around you, or mindful of others? Second, does "To be mindful of oneself is to see oneself as a god" seem logical to anyone else? Each step in your logic seems questionable to me.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 2:37:52 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse Only to those who see it as such. :-)
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 2:25:50 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse That's somewhat torturous logic, isn't it?
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 1:30:05 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse "Just as well to ask: "Who would it benefit to make us spiritual, and unmindful of the real world?"" Aye, but there's the rub. To be mindful of the world is to be mindful of oneself. To be mindful of oneself is to see oneself as a god. To see oneself as a god is to separate oneself from the oneness of creation. To separate oneself is to lose touch with the real world, that is to say reality. The reality that is the same in the world and with God.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 1:10:06 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Just as well to ask: "Who would it benefit to make us spiritual, and unmindful of the real world?"
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 1:06:43 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse Entire religions get build around it... keeping the roots firmly planted in worldly matters instead of spiritual. Now who would it benefit to keep us worldly and self minded?
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 1:00:54 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse And how many more problems that has spawned.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 12:53:52 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse Isn't it interesting how sex became the dirty word instead of the abuse of it.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2008 7:28:55 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse geekguy - "we've been over this many times, Genesis 2 is not sequentially different in the creation story over Genesis 1." If that's true, then it's a flaw in the Bible. "Cain's wife was likely one of his sisters. Mankind was genetically un-flawed at that time, so no reinforced recessive genotype concerns prevented that. Only once sin had degenerated the genotype was it necessary to forbid close relatives marrying." "Sin" does not have any effect on genes.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 24, 2008 7:20:00 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse 2 sides to that THEORY..... hence the thread
geekguy Champion Author Seattle Posts:3,504 Points:1,317,095 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 24, 2008 7:08:21 PM Ignore geekguy Report Abuse rjhenn, we've been over this many times, Genesis 2 is not sequentially different in the creation story over Genesis 1. Cain's wife was likely one of his sisters. Mankind was genetically un-flawed at that time, so no reinforced recessive genotype concerns prevented that. Only once sin had degenerated the genotype was it necessary to forbid close relatives marrying.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 24, 2008 4:07:41 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse "Of course, that likely also means that Adam did not introduce sin to the world." Or it could mean Adam introduced it into God's special, perfect, sinless, created in His image, chosen peoples' world,the Hebrew world whose scriptures it was all about.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 24, 2008 8:57:08 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Another interpretation might be that the two creations were actually sequential, as written. God created the world and everything in it, including man. Then He created the Garden, and Adam and Eve. That would explain some of the other questions, like where Cain, and the other male descendants of Adam, found a wife, and where the daughters of men (Gen 6:2) came from. Of course, that likely also means that Adam did not introduce sin to the world.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2008 6:53:12 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse mexicomaria - "The Lord left behind a small company of despised followers from whom little could be expected. Yet from them came the seeds of histories greatest movement." Elvis, and rock & roll?
mexicomaria Champion Author Minnesota Posts:24,110 Points:1,354,365 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jan 17, 2008 10:21:09 PM Ignore mexicomaria Report Abuse Passer...Leave the understanding of the weed to the master of the garden like you said..(master gardener) When reading on this parable I came across the neatest thought..a further lesson...One cannot judge the success or failure of a movement by the smallness of its beginnings. The Lord left behind a small company of despised followers from whom little could be expected. Yet from them came the seeds of histories greatest movement. "10For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice," Zech 4:10
Passer Champion Author New Jersey Posts:18,210 Points:2,302,195 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Jan 17, 2008 9:49:11 PM Ignore Passer Report Abuse "In understanding weeds does not the seed grow stronger?" A weed can be merely a flower in a crucified conotation. Understand the weed and you are a master of the garden.
Kyrie All-Star Author Tampa Posts:829 Points:34,430 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2008 1:00:05 PM Ignore Kyrie Report Abuse Matthew 19:26. But Jesus Beheld them, and Said Unto them, "With men this is impossible; but With God All Things Are Possible." ~ the hard part is not to lie where you eat; even after; or, otherwise . (KJV)
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2008 12:17:04 PM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse If you immediately know the candlelight is fire, the meal was cooked a long time ago.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2008 10:45:24 AM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse In understanding weeds does not the seed grow stronger?
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2008 8:41:27 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Kyrie - "Only God Can "Create" and Destroy; Make a Seed Grow!" Easy. All you need is potting soil, water and a source of the proper light. After that, the seed does most of the work. The real problem is keeping the weeds from growing.
Kyrie All-Star Author Tampa Posts:829 Points:34,430 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2008 12:47:16 PM Ignore Kyrie Report Abuse Only God Can "Create" and Destroy; Make a Seed Grow! (Early Rain, "AND" Latter Rain). Revelation 12:10. And I heard a loud voice saying in Heaven, Now Is Come Salvation, and Strength, and the Kingdom of Our God, and the Power of His Christ: for the accuser of Our Brethren is cast down, which accused Them Before Our God Day and Night. (KJV)
otserp Veteran Author Knoxville Posts:309 Points:1,950 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2008 1:09:35 AM Ignore otserp Report Abuse I would not say he "hires" them. He created them.
Kyrie All-Star Author Tampa Posts:829 Points:34,430 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2008 8:58:07 PM Ignore Kyrie Report Abuse Jeremiah 9:24. "But Let him that glorieth Glory In This, That he Understandeth and Knoweth Me, That I Am the LORD Which Exercise Lovingkindness, Judgment, and Righteousness, in the earth: For In These Things I Delight," Saith the LORD. (KJV)
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2008 12:50:05 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse And yet he hires underlings to do His bidding and work for Him.
otserp Veteran Author Knoxville Posts:309 Points:1,950 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2008 2:55:12 AM Ignore otserp Report Abuse So who stands before God in his given task and accuses us? Nobody needs to accuse us. God and Jesus can see directly into out innermost thoughts, into our hearts, in an essence we accuse ourselves. Then we put the Satan up on a pedastal, and say HE accuses us. No need for that, when the Lord knows us better then ourselves.
timothyu Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:14,679 Points:175,385 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jan 9, 2008 2:25:46 PM Ignore timothyu Report Abuse "This foe is Satan, who incessantly opposes the seed of the woman and bruises its heel, but is eventually to be trodden under its feet." So who stands before God in his given task and accuses us?
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 9, 2008 10:29:36 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse trinuclear - "Really? Where in Genesis do you see one 'kind' of animal changing into another 'kind'?" You don't even read what you write, do you?
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,434 Points:2,228,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jan 9, 2008 10:28:30 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse trinuclear - "Prove that it is not then." See, you obviously don't understand anything about logic, or proof. You're asking me to prove a negative. Actually, it's up to you to prove your positive position, which you haven't done yet. All I have to do is point out the errors in your proof.
trinuclear Champion Author Albany Posts:9,779 Points:601,410 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Jan 9, 2008 2:31:02 AM Ignore trinuclear Report Abuse >>>That's a considerable leap of logic, and isn't really supported by anything else in the Bible, particularly not in the OT. They probably made that up, like much else of modern theology, to support the beliefs they already had about Christianity.<<< Prove that it is not then.