rjhenn
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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2008 2:59:19 PM
Qadosh - "The verses you quoted are incredible. It describes the world we live in perfectly! How could the writers of the Word of God have known that? Of course they did not know that, but God did, and that proves, once again, the veracity of the Word of God."
Or perhaps they read Exodus. Or looked at the world around them.
[Edited by: rjhenn at 1/10/2008 6:00:36 PM EST]
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KatmanDo
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Message Posted: Jan 6, 2008 6:29:31 PM
"Also sad is that people fall for his antics and give their hard earned money to him. Most are people on a pension who cannot afford to give it."
If you become aware of such behavior by the seniors in your family, you might want to go into court and have them declared incompetent to handle their own financial affairs. Why stand by and watch loved ones squander their money on such nonsense, just because they no longer are "playing with a full deck"? To not step in might be considered failure to honor the loved ones they once were.
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Qadosh
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Message Posted: Dec 1, 2007 5:13:27 PM
The verses you quoted are incredible. It describes the world we live in perfectly! How could the writers of the Word of God have known that? Of course they did not know that, but God did, and that proves, once again, the veracity of the Word of God.
I truly hope that this investigation will lead these false teachers to the Lord Jesus and that they will repent and be born again. It is a shame to see these people use their God given talents to covet and hoard worldly goods.
These false teachers are just following the path that has been well worn throughout history by demonic organizations, especially the "great whore", that have controlled the multitudes through manipulation; alleging that "gain is godliness". Indulgences, seed planting, and the like are terms from the pit of hell.
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geekguy
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Message Posted: Nov 26, 2007 10:21:08 PM
Great point Qadosh, I should have broadened the verses to include that one. It does make the point much better than I did without it.
These prosperity gospel "teachers" are very popular though - lots of people want to hear what they have to say. Of course God has also known that, as tri pointed out already:
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. (2 Timothy 4:1-4)"
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Qadosh
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Message Posted: Nov 25, 2007 6:20:23 PM
Excellent points Gekguy, in fact, right before the famous "love of money" verse, you aptly quoted, and in context with it; the Word of God says, "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and DESTITUTE OF THE TRUTH, SUPPOSING THAT GAIN IS GODLINESS: from such withdraw thyself." (emphasis added)(1 Timothy 6:5)
It is clearly taught that those who preach the "prosperity gospel" do not even know the Lord; that is a scary and serious implication, but obvious from the Text.
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geekguy
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Message Posted: Nov 18, 2007 9:34:26 AM
I think the key verses about the "prosperity gospel" or "word faith" (aka name-it-and-claim-it) heretics are:
"But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness. Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. (1 Timothy 6:9-12, emphasis added)".
And "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MAMMON. And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
(Luke 16:13-15, emphasis added)".
Mammon is defined as "Earthly goods; property; riches."
I applaud the senator going after those who claim to love the Lord Jesus Christ but who really love Mammon. Or those who claim to love Krishna, Buddha, or Darwin and really are working for Mammon.
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Qadosh
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Message Posted: Nov 17, 2007 1:53:26 PM
I am reminded of what the Lord said through Jeremiah: "Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD." (Jeremiah 17:5)
A person either has a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus or they are following a man-made teaching. Jesus did not ordain any of these false-teachers. They are lovers of money preaching to people with itching ears! If anything, the events of this day should draw a person to the Lord Jesus, because it is EXACTLY the way the Lord said it would be in the end!
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. (Matthew 24:24)
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wi9x
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Message Posted: Nov 13, 2007 12:46:40 PM
Pique, while it saddens me that you are not a believer, I do understand why. Hinn and several others indeed give the ministry, and to a larger extent, believers as a whole a bad name.
I don't want to come across as sounding 'holier than thou'- I am indeed also a sinner in need of His grace, and I have done my share of sin and I'm sure besmirching the name of the Lord- and all I can do for that is pray forgiveness.
Many, including the aforementioned however, I fear forget Luke 9:23 " And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me."
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PGM
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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2007 8:28:13 AM
Piq.,
What makes me really angry is that it really doesn't represent Christianity in its 'content' but puts on a false face and sells itself as being the real deal. This is what so many of us on this forum are adverse to since a lot of us are teachers, pastors, ministers, etc.... Being that the followers of Benny are so ignorant they don't know to test out what he says. They believe that a miracle (If any ever did actually exist) grants the person doing the miracle 'saint' status. The bible warns Christians (Jews too) to test people out against what God has already said, see if what they are doing is in-character with God, and also see if the person is giving glory to God or himself.
I hope you actually see and understand why we attack the Christian cults like we do. We see them as nothing different than Benny. And if Benny were a GB'r you'd see us pounce on him with no less vigor.
I feel bad for these people also. What you are seeing on their faces, their hope, the despair, the "lost-ness".... this is what the bible is describing when it talks about the Jewish people following Jesus around from town to town and what He described as Lost sheep. With this visual you can put our 'Christianese' lingo in context.
[Edited by: PGM at 11/12/2007 11:33:21 AM EST]
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PiqueOil
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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2007 8:09:18 AM
PGM: I'm glad you found the video interesting.
Though I'm not a believer in your god (or any other gods), I do think that faith can bring comfort to folks. So when I see a charlatan such as Hinn using hope and faith for his own personal gain, it makes me angry.
I look at that little girl and her mother in that video and I see hope and faith terribly abused by Hinn. Obviously, there are many, many more just like them: People in pain believing in the illusory power of this man to heal. They pin their desperate hopes, and cash they can ill afford to give away, on Benny.
If he truly could heal, he would have 100 or 1000 or 10,000 times as many followers as he does today.
I checked out Hinn's website the other day. As one might expect, it's filled with ads for products for sale: Calendars, books, Bibles, prayer shawls, trips, DVDs (including a $100 set of discs on healing), candles, plates, keychains, bracelets, necklaces, lapel pins, audio tapes, CDs, anointing oil, posters, pens, letter openers, financial advice, cookbooks, desk ornaments, music boxes, paperweights and more. The site is about as subtle as one for a Las Vegas casino. It's all about money and all about Benny.
[Edited by: PiqueOil at 11/12/2007 11:09:43 AM EST]
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PGM
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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2007 9:14:45 AM
Piq.,
You asked "Can you share with me any verses in the gospel of Jesus indicating that he thought it was good that people of god accumulated wealth?"
First I want to thank you for presenting the clip! Awesome!
About the scriptures, Jesus wasn't around to present a health and wealth, name-it-and-claim-it, or blab and grab type of gospel. So you won't hear it anywhere in the bible that God says that we should be accumulating wealth because that is not the GOAL of the spreading of the gospel of salvation -- Jesus is always at the center of ministry, not money.
The bible does talk about wealth, Job for example. God does bless people, wealth can be one of them, but not necessarily the only way that He blesses. King David and much more so, his son, Solomon. Wealth in itself is not a sin, but it's always what we do with that wealth /power / position that God holds us accountable for.
Jesus was poor, dependent on the generosity of his hosts, and also maintained by God's will. Several of the women that were with Jesus were known to be wealthy and that wealth was used, not for opulent living, but for basic needs of life and the ministry.
Jesus fed 5,000 (men). Philip offered to go to the local village and spend 200 denare (about an 8-months wage for a person) -- Jesus said NO, fed them yourselves. Jesus blessed what they had by giving thanks to God, broke bread, and handed it out to what is estimated to be between 10-15K men, women and children --
There is a good saying about money in a God fearing church -- "Where God guides, God provides". As Benny warned in his letter, we "Need" 2.5 million... and I'm sure it also added that his ministry would suffer if he didn't get it -- well, he obviously doesn't believe what he teaches. He's a false prophet, a false teacher, a wolf, and many other things that work against the ministry -- he does it for self gain, covetousness.
Riches are not the issue with a Christian. It's nice to have money and the bible does not say that "being poor" is a blessing by God. It does say that we need to work for a living and those that need to abandon work in favor of the ministry should be paid.
I'm pleased that some people had their eyes opened because of this Piq -- I appreciate that. It was an excellent flick and my son and wife enjoyed it -- even though we usually yell at the TV when we see his crud being put out in the name of God.
[Edited by: PGM at 11/10/2007 12:18:22 PM EST]
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masonco
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Message Posted: Nov 10, 2007 4:03:23 AM
Q Those were the verses that came to my mind. There also is the passage about storing up things on earth and for what? Our families to fight over when we die?
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Qadosh
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 10:43:16 PM
They are all false teachers and the Lord said that judgment would begin at the house of God. I hope they run them through the cleaners and then they truly repent! They are all guilty of financial misconduct, but the law of this land is the LEAST they have to worry about.
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
(2 Peter 2:1-3)
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
(1 Timothy 6:5)
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masonco
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 3:14:48 PM
I saw this on the news and was saddened. I believe most of these "preachers" entered into the ministry wanting to do God's work. As ia human nature, it is easy to get caught up in the wealth of the world and begin thinking that success was because of ones hard work.
Others entered these "ministries" fully intending to scam listeners and followers. It does say in the bible that we must use caution with these preachers because they are not blessed of God. I don't have those references here, perhaps the ones more educated and more computer savay than I can give the quotes. I make too many mistakes trying to type the verses out.
Going on. RE: the question about wealth and what does the Bible say about it. In the Old Testement Abraham, King Solomon, others were blessed with great wealth but they remained God like in that they gave a portion of it back to God.
Here is my opinion regarding wealth. In the New Testement, Jesus did not say the rich man was cursed or condemned because he was wealthy. The rich young man just wanted to keep it all for himself and not trust God with his money. That was where he was wrong I think. I believe Bible teaches that we are to give generously to God's work, help the poor and those in need if we are blessed with money. Bottom line I believe God expects us to earn our moeny honestly, save accordingly, give to those in need and at all times be thankful we are blessed. There is a parable about the master going away and dividing 10 talents with his servants. The servant who invested his masters money wisely received accordingly. The servant who did not do so was punished. Again, I hope that the others can help with that question and explain it better than I.
These statements are my interpretations and not necessarily facts. Worldly wealth means nothing if we use it wrong.
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Plunkster
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 11:39:08 AM
Osteen The Snake Oil Salesman is next.
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CarSUVowner
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 10:50:24 AM
PiqueOil, I just viewed that Benny Hinn video. All I can say is WOW! I guess I am in the wrong business. Wonder if I could start up a mega ministry like that and get away with it? Probably not. The sad part of it all is that he heals no one and gets away with it. Also sad is that people fall for his antics and give their hard earned money to him. Most are people on a pension who cannot afford to give it.
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PiqueOil
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 7:53:08 AM
PGM: Can you share with me any verses in the gospel of Jesus indicating that he thought it was good that people of god accumulated wealth? I can't find any and am wondering if I'm missing something.
I know there are passages folks are fond of citing in other parts of the Bible, but I'm wondering about the gospel of Jesus.
You seem to know the Bible well, and you obviously have some disdain for these preachers under investigation, so I'm wondering what part of the gospels they might use to justify their ministries and lavish lifestyles. If you don't know of any such verses in the gospel of Jesus, that's fine. If you do, please share them.
Thanks.
Same question for you, Guitar_Man.
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PiqueOil
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 7:48:48 AM
Canadian Broadcasting takes a look at Benny Hinn: Click on "Do You Believe in Miracles?"
Ouch.
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PGM
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 7:42:07 AM
You're a man of many words.
[Edited by: PGM at 11/9/2007 10:42:02 AM EST]
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Cloversville
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 5:00:20 AM
Got it.
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PGM
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Message Posted: Nov 9, 2007 3:56:02 AM
Cloversville,
What I mean by this is that "our" faith is not required for God to do a miracle. There was a church I attended within the last year that was attempting to teach it's church that God could do nothing unless we prayed and had faith in what we were asking. That's actually heresy and blasphemes God (we walked out nearly immediately).
God doesn't need 'our' faith or our prayer in order for Him to be empowered. He made the earth, stars, and heaven without man -- so now are we going to make ourselves more powerful than God by saying He can't do something unless we have faith and pray? That's not how it works.
God extends us grace and mercy -- according to His pleasure, desire, Will.
When we ask for something, "According to His will", he hears us. And if it's in that perfect will He'll gladly do it.
1 John 5:14 ¶ And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
This verse doesn't say that iof we have enough FAITH that God will do it. Saying it like that places the power on us, not God.
When we get into these so-called "Faith" healers we start to hear them tell people to "have more faith" or start to make accusations at Christians telling them "You don't have enough faith" -- Like we're the author of our faith? Even our faith is given to us by God.
I could go on and on. Get the idea?
[Edited by: PGM at 11/9/2007 7:01:35 AM EST]
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trinuclear
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 7:13:02 PM
G_M,
Sorry, I don't/can't give heretics a pass. Articles on the false teacher Benny Hinn.
The following is from the Apologetics Index
Benny Hinn
Don't Touch God's Annointed?
Some Christians believe that it is wrong for Christians to criticize the teachings and practices of evangelists like Benny Hinn. They point out:
1. that Jesus taught his followers not to judge (Matthew 7:1), and
2. that the Bible says not to 'touch God's annointed.' (Psalm 105:15)
The notion that these verses forbid Christians from examining the teachings and practices of other Christians is the result of faulty interpretation. For details on this issue, see the following Apologetics Index entry:
• Should Christians Judge? Does the Bible not warn against 'touching God's anointed'?
The Bible teaches that all Christians should learn how to discern between orthodoxy and heresy. It tells us to test everything, and to then hold on to that which is good. (See: 1 Thessalonians 5:19-22). This necessarily involves 'judging' - not of the person, but of his or her teachings and practices (to see whether or not they are Biblical).
Benny Hinn, however, claims that the same Holy Spirit who inspired Scripture tells him something different:
The Holy Ghost is upon me...The day is coming when those that attack us will drop dead. You say, 'What did he say?' I speak this under the anointing of the Spirit. Can I tell you something? Don't touch God's servants; it's deadly...Woe to you that touch God's servants. You're going to pay. 'And the day will come.' The Lord said that to me. He said, 'The day will come when I will punish instantly. Woe to those who touch my chosen.' They will fear us. Hear this: today they mock us; tomorrow they will fear us.
Source: Benny Hinn, "Miracle Invasion Ralley," Anaheim Convention Center November 22, 1991, quoted in Christianity in Crisis, Hank Hanegraaff.
Instead of obeying God's Word, many of Benny Hinn's followers share his unbiblical rejection of accountability regarding his teachings and practices.
Note that the Bible foretold that there would come a time when certain people will simply not put up with sound doctrine, but instead seek out teachers and teachings which suit their own desires:
Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
Source: 2 Timothy 4:2-3 NIV
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CarSUVowner
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 6:30:08 PM
I believe that the $23,000.00 commode, is most likely either definition #1 or definition #2 in the link. Especially after reading that it had a marble top.
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Cloversville
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 4:11:31 PM
PGM said -- "It's not YOUR faith, It's God."
What do you mean by that?
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Guitar_Man
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 2:39:58 PM
All,
I think my comment (my "righteous indignation") was directed at the devil who tries SO hard to divide the Body of Christ.
If we were to meet the 12 apostles and talked with them, I'm sure many of us would pick favorites and might even go so far as to not like a few of them.
But does our opinion count? (Or does the Lords? He's the One who calls people and Who raises people up and Who give and Who takes away.)
I, personally, know a boy who was confined to a wheelchair when I lived in West Texas who went to a Benny Hinn crusade in Dallas...the boy and the wheelchair went...and just the boy came back...walking and hopping and dancing like he's been doing that all his life. (He had not and had not been able to walk in over 5 years.)
My Mom used to say the proof is in the pudding. Are people being healed in Benny's crusades? Without a doubt.
I think we need to observe King David's attitude towards Saul:
1 Samuel 26:7-12 So David and Abishai went to the army by night, and there was Saul, lying asleep inside the camp with his spear stuck in the ground near his head. Abner and the soldiers were lying around him.
Abishai said to David, “Today God has delivered your enemy into your hands. Now let me pin him to the ground with one thrust of my spear; I won't strike him twice.”
But David said to Abishai, “Don't destroy him! Who can lay a hand on the Lord's anointed and be guiltless?
As surely as the Lord lives,” he said, “the Lord himself will strike him; either his time will come and he will die, or he will go into battle and perish.
But the Lord forbid that I should lay a hand on the Lord's anointed. Now get the spear and water jug that are near his head, and let's go.”
So David took the spear and water jug near Saul's head, and they left. No one saw or knew about it, nor did anyone wake up. They were all sleeping, because the Lord had put them into a deep sleep.
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trinuclear
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 10:56:10 AM
For those of you who may not think that the Govt. can have 'control' over a Tax exempt org., take a look at the following: (it is from pg 23 of Form 1023, the IRS application for 501(c)3 tax exempt status)
- Pay particular attention to both paragraphs #2.
In determining whether an admittedly religious organization is also a church, the IRS does not accept any and every assertion that such an organization is a church. Because beliefs and practices vary so widely, there is no single definition of the word “church” for tax purposes. The IRS considers the facts and circumstances of each organization applying for church status.
The IRS maintains two basic guidelines in determining that an organization meets the religious purposes test:
1. That the particular religious beliefs of the organization are truly and sincerely held, and2. That the practices and rituals associated with the organization’s religious beliefs or creed are not illegal or contrary to clearly defined public policy.In order for the IRS to properly evaluate your organization’s activities and religious purposes, it is important that all questions in Schedule A be answered.
The information submitted with Schedule A will be a determining factor in granting the “church” status requested by your organization. In completing the schedule, consider the following points:
1. The organization’s activities in furtherance of its beliefs must be exclusively religious, and
2. An organization will not qualify for exemption if it has a substantial nonexempt purpose of serving the private interests of its founder or the founder’s family.--Just a quick thought/comment/question about 'clearly defined public policy' - One day Bible believing churches will face the choice of giving up their tax exempt status OR compromising their beliefs.
[Edited by: trinuclear at 11/8/2007 1:59:28 PM EST]
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PGM
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 10:35:52 AM
G_M,
I'm not sure who you're directing that comment at but I think it very questionable, not necessarily wrong, that a person flaunts his/her wealth.
When God gives us wealth (speaking as a Christian), it's for a reason. Correct?
I know a few well-off Christians, and I know a few well-off Christians in ministry. The ones that will take the heat are those that are pulling a salary from the ministry and still earning money on the side "well" above a person's needs.
If the idea of paying a minister is due to his/her full time service to the Lord, and in doing so interferes with their ability to support themselves -- pulling a salary is certainly biblical.
But, for example, a person who is very well off through their personal efforts outside the church then draws $100-150K + per year in addition, then it's wrong and I would go so far as to say it's a sin against teh Spirit of the Church.
While I am glad these people are being investigated (to what degree I don't know) I want to see the right thing being done in light of the Law and possibly exposing, through public IRS documents, exactly what these people are doing with their fellowships funds.
That's not unreasonable. Every church I know acts in this way.
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trinuclear
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 10:33:10 AM
Guitar Man, I never said it was a sin to be wealthy. I am questioning their motivation and their theology (especially Hinn & Copeland).
There is a secondary issue here and that is that these people run/control 501(c)3 tax exempt organizations. When you get a federal tax exemption you agree to play by their rules, and the Govt. then can control how much the organization pays people and what can be said.
There is a concern about the compensation that the leaders receive as being excessive if that income came from a tax exempt organization. When you accept the tax exempt status, you get all the strings attached (ie control)
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Guitar_Man
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 6:59:30 AM
According to my Bible, it's not a sin to be wealthy or even rich...many Godly people in the Bible were.
Being greedy or selfish with what you've been blessed with is a sin....God is a giver and we are to be like Him.
Many of those on the list have sold millions of books so why wouldn't they have a lot of money? (If any of you sold millions of books you'd be rich so maybe some of you need to get off your high horse, huh?)
Finally, it's a Congressional Inquiry...NOT an indictment...learn how your government works and you might be authorized to shoot you mouth off instead of sounding ignorant.
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PGM
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 3:29:36 AM
Tri,
So how much faith did Lazarus have when he was brought back from the dead?
That's the question you need to throw at people when they are part of a "Faith" heals you type of group. -- It's not YOUR faith, It's God.
Anyway, good for you. I liked your posts.
[Edited by: PGM at 11/8/2007 6:29:55 AM EST]
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trinuclear
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 2:31:50 AM
PiqueOil,
I think you hit the nail on the head when you made the comment:
>>In your opinion, do they come across as the kinds of money-grubbers Jesus kicked out of the temple <<<
I do believe most of the people on the list fit your description.
They take advantage of people who genuinely are seeking out God and scam them. Their theology just does not hold any water and their methods are dubious at best....
SGM,
I know we have not agreed on much, but I completely agree with you here. Henn is one of the worst 'husker's' out there (IMO). He runs a pretty good scam too.....by telling people that is 'faith' that heals them. If they don't get healed then the person just did not have enough 'faith'. It is not that his (Henn's) theology is wrong, the person just didn't have enough 'faith' to be healed of __________. But he will pray for you if you send him a donation!
Jesus did not have any kind words for that type of person:
Matt 21:12-13
12 Then Jesus went into the temple of God and drove out all those who bought and sold in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves. 13 And He said to them, "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer,' but you have made it a 'den of thieves.'"
NKJV
Matt 18:6-7
6 "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
NKJV
Henn is definitely preaching a 'different Gospel':
Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
NKJV
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trinuclear
Champion Author
Albany
Posts:9,779
Points:601,410
Joined:Sep 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 8, 2007 2:19:53 AM
It appears that Senator Grasssley is using this section of the IRS code:
Expansion on §4958 (the "Intermediate Sanctions" Rule)
Since the mid-1990s a rule addressed at the problem of improper payments to certain individuals has been in effect. This rule is sometimes referred to as the "intermediate sanctions" rule. Before this rule about the only sanction the Internal Revenue Service had when a §501(c)(3) improperly transferred assets to a private interest was to revoke its exemption. In many cases this was believed to be too extreme. The new rule provides a sanction between doing nothing and revoking an organization’s tax-exemption.
More here:
Expansion on §4958 (the "Intermediate Sanctions" Rule)
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Cloversville
Champion Author
Washington
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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2007 5:02:31 PM
Like Joel Osteen, they preach a "health and wealth" gospel. If you have enough faith, God will make you healthy and rich. Looks like they all have lots of faith.
[Edited by: Cloversville at 11/7/2007 8:03:49 PM EST]
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PGM
Champion Author
Houston
Posts:9,070
Points:721,825
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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2007 10:26:55 AM
Piq,
I had posted this same thing in one of the Christianity threads. My comment that accompanied it was "There is a God!"
I've watched several of these on the list for more than a few years and I'M VERY HAPPY they are being investigated; there are probably a few more that should be on there (Jan and Paul Crouch for example - owners of TBN Christian programming). I think that any Christian who feeds off of the church in lavish ways ought to be thrown out.
However, if a pastor earns his/her money (perhaps selling books, side businesses, etc...) then God bless 'em. If they want a $23k toilet and gold foil toilet paper to wipe themselves, have at it, it's their money, they earned it, they can flush it for all I care.
[Edited by: PGM at 11/7/2007 1:28:48 PM EST]
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PiqueOil
Champion Author
Twin Cities
Posts:6,199
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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2007 9:45:59 AM
Joyce Meyer has a $23,000 toilet, according to documents Grassley has received.
"In his letter to Meyer, Grassley noted a $23,000 toilet and a pair of vases valued at $19,162 were bought for the ministry's headquarters in Fenton, Mo."
That's one very pricey potty.
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sgm4law
Champion Author
Maryland
Posts:19,068
Points:2,405,355
Joined:Mar 2006
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Message Posted: Nov 7, 2007 6:56:49 AM
Benny Hinn just freaks me out. I have a well-educated relative who follows him not just around the country but around the world, helping on his "crusades" (I think he helps "catch" the "healed"). He's so obviously a huckster! When investigations are made, my relative always come to the defense of Hinn, saying that people are just out to get him. Why would anyone be out to get a legitimate religious leader? Unbelievable.
[Edited by: sgm4law at 11/7/2007 9:58:14 AM EST]
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