tankerCA
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Chico
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Message Posted: Jul 17, 2011 6:10:04 AM
This is what the Apostle Paul says about it:
"For I do not want you to be ignorant of this secret, brothers, so that you will not claim to be wiser than you are. A partial hardening has come on Israel until the full number of the gentiles has come in.
In this way, all Israel will be saved. As it is written, 'The Deliverer will come from Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. This is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.'
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake, but as far as election is concerned, they are loved because of their ancestors.
For God's gifts and calling never change. For just as you disobeyed God in the past but now have received his mercy because of their disobedience, in order they too have disobeyed in the present so that they may receive mercy because of the mercy shown to you." - Romans 11:25-31
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Jul 16, 2011 1:58:48 PM
We owe our Christianity and salvation to the OT persecution of the Jews for without it there would have been no need for Jesus to come to teach of an alternate Kingdom where they and we would be free of such things.
Consider also though that there was conflict between ideologies which may have lead to rejection of the Kingdom by the majority. Every good Jewish mother knows the power of guilt and what can be gained by it's use. But Jesus spoke of forgiveness rather than laying on a guilt trip. Forgiveness cannot be used for gain and was another example of how man's kingdoms and traditions clashed with God's for God's is not for personal gain.
Can the Jews be blamed for exploiting this? NO! It is a human nature.
Using being persecuted to instill guilt is used throughout the world including by Christians today to re-establish some sort of foothold in the world, so it is no more a Jewish trait than one of mankind, one we are all guilty of using following the traditions of man rather than forgiving as a way of the Kingdom.
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sissurf
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Message Posted: Jul 16, 2011 1:38:14 PM
Thanks kephar, for the nice comment.
Tim, you got some thinking going on here, huh?!
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2011 10:58:09 PM
Another way of looking at how God has continually used the Jews as an example is the significance of the story of how the people were to choose between Jesus and Barabbas. They chose Barabbas and sealed their fate once again, not because they rejected Jesus, but because they chose the kingdom of man over the Kingdom of God that Jesus had taught. Why wouldn't they reject the man and His kingdom who said it was not of this world? Why shouldn't they choose a man who fought to bring about a new kingdom of man free of the Romans?
So once again they rejected the will of God, once again setting the example for mankind of what happens when God is shunned in favour of man's ways.
Yet we must remember these were the chosen people. Consider all that they have been through serving a purpose for God. Do you not think they have sacrificed more, even if at their own hand, than the rest of us? Do you think God is merely using them to be cast aside?
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timothyu
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2011 10:14:13 PM
Persecution has been used as a tool for gain since the beginning of time. The people who would become the Jewish peoples faced hardship after hardship, yet how often was it because God was punishing them. He even let the people go and what happened. More persecution as they once again turned away from God. The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.. why? Innocence? Persecution became used as a way of expecting special treatment. Today many minority groups pursue the same route.
Yet if you think back, perhaps God made them His chosen people precisely because of who they were and this persecution complex. This was a people who could be used as an example to the rest of the world of the benefits of accepting God and the troubles of rejecting Him.
Do you think that if they as a whole were to accept what has been denied for 2000 years that perhaps things might change? We won't know because that is not how it plays out according to the Bible.
Everyone fails to learn the lesson of the Jews, especially the last 2000 years and all mankind turns against the Christ. We know the end result.
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Cloversville
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Washington
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2011 8:32:58 AM
Scripture tells us that unbelieving Israel of the old testament pursued salvation through their own works. (Romans 9:32) That continues today. Orthodox Jews are doing the same thing at this moment. Scripture also tells us that God has a remnant of Jews that He will save. (Romans 9:27) Romans 10:3 seems to be saying that old testament Jews were not aware of salvation by faith.
“For being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.” (Romans 10:3)
Orthodox Jews today can’t claim ignorance as an excuse for rejecting the Messiah. I would guess that it would be difficult to find an adult who hasn’t heard the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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kephar
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Utah
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Message Posted: Jul 15, 2011 6:50:13 AM
Sissurf has it right. Most of the Jews that I have met do not reject Christ Jahshuwah as the one sent. They may not beleive like main stream christians (which is probably good) but they do believe.
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sissurf
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Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 9:58:53 AM
"Why do most Jews reject Christ?"
Some Jews follow Christ, that's how we have the beginning of Christianity.
There are even Jews today that believe in Christ, but most of all the Jews in Christ's day did not wish to believe that Christ was the Son of God because that meant they would have to change their religion that they had been taught for so many years.
They also were influence by the leaders of their church or Temple that Christ was nothing more then a man causing troubles and you would have to remember that Christ's teachings happened within a small area of the country, do to the fact that all communications and teachings had to be by word of mouth.
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mexicomaria
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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2011 9:34:53 PM
I believe most men reject Christ...not just religious men (in this case Jews).
"?Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
'Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.'
"?Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient, the stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone,' and 'A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.'
"They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. ?But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light...." 1 Peter 2:4-9
"The Lord of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.
He will be as a sanctuary,
But a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense
To both the houses of Israel,
As a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
And many among them shall stumble;
They shall fall and be broken,
Be snared and taken.” Is 8:13-15
Religious men have so much stock in religion and they can not give that up...to come to Christ. They are comfortable with tradition even if it is not faith in Christ....they put tradition at the center of their life and not Christ. There is an religious arrogance there.
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erbyfub
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Raleigh
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Message Posted: Jul 13, 2011 8:02:41 PM
I think persecution does have a lot to do with it.
Also, traditional Jews seem to perceive Christianity as a totally different religion from Judaism, and if they accepted Christ they think they would have to give up a lot they hold dear (the Torah, tradition, Jewish community, for example).
The prophecies that point to Jesus as Messiah they say either don't apply (we say they will apply at the Second Coming) or are mistranslated (like "virgin" in Isaiah actually means "young woman"), or misapplied (Isaiah 53 is talking about Israel, not the Messiah).
There's been a lot of opposition built up over the years that has found its way into the Jewish culture and traditional rabbinic teachings too, probably in significant part due to persecution.
They also have a problem with the Trinity (God is one), Messiah as God, and possibly some other doctrines that I'm not remembering right now.
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