gamechanger2011
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Wichita
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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2012 9:44:09 AM
Waterman66....you are so right. I have finally figured that out. I think that they try to take over these threads with their bantering. It's nothing more then a tactic to control the conversations on the threads. It is impossible to stay on topic when they get involved! But that's what they want!
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Waterman66
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Colorado
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Message Posted: Apr 12, 2012 5:58:00 AM
GC, what I have learned long ago is that you post relevant information to refute myths or lies. However, you are never going to change the attitude of the zealots who only look for what they want to see.
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gamechanger2011
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Wichita
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2012 6:52:04 PM
Waterman66....thanks for your post! There is so much nonsense posted on here by those who think that they are experts, because they can google and post a link.
Could you help answer the food versus fuel debate. The non ethanol knuckles don't believe that #2 yellow non-food grade corn is being used to make ethanol. They want to believe that we are starving people by using corn to make fuel, instead of food.
I post link after link and they won't buy it. Not sure if you have any answers. Would love to stop the insanity!
[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/11/2012 9:53:02 PM EST]
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Waterman66
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Colorado
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Message Posted: Apr 11, 2012 10:30:45 AM
Wasn't pointed at you GC. More for Anti.
Ok anti, you stated facts by some clown organization. Lets look at the real truth.
Corn actually consumes on average around 21.5 inches of water per acre to produce 164 bushels per acre. That amount of water includes rainfall and irrigation. This is utilizing the average yield across the nation and published water response functions. This is evapotranspiration, not total water applied. This is water that is moved thru the plant and transpires thru the leaf tissue. Why not total water applied? Because the excess is either runoff or leaching which is utilized later by people or plants. Look at western water law when you want to talk about consumption.
Ok, that 21.5 inches of water per acre is roughly 585,000 gallons of water. That 585,000 gallons transpired produces roughly 164 bushels of corn from the 2009 crop report. That is a little more than 3500 gallons per bushel of corn. A bushel of corn produces around 2.8 gallons of ethanol so a gallon of ethanol consumed 1275 gallons of water.
Now the question is what would have happened to that water. Well, if we had grass it still would have been consumed by the grass. If we planted other crops, it still would have been consumed. If we would have still planted corn, it still would have been consumed. The people who irrigate are still going to irrigate a crop no matter what the crop is.
Don't you just love those games played.
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gamechanger2011
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Wichita
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Message Posted: Apr 10, 2012 9:18:22 AM
Watermnan66....I agree! I was just making a point for the anti ethanol posters.
[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/10/2012 12:18:40 PM EST]
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Waterman66
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Colorado
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 9:02:23 PM
I love how people talk about water consumed. Water is utilized and returned back to the environment either as vapor or liquid. Nothing is ever lost.
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gamechanger2011
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Wichita
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 5:32:43 AM
This is an intersting
"fact..10. How much water does an acre of corn give off per day in evaporation?
4,000 gallons"
That's right, an acre of corn gives off 4000 gallons of water a day.EPA water trivia facts
[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/9/2012 8:33:59 AM EST]
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gamechanger2011
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 5:26:49 AM
3170 gallons of water to make 1 pound of chocolate
660 gallons of water to make 1 hamburger
1799 gallons of water to make 1 pound of beef
1008 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of wine
713 gallons of water to make 1 tshirt
1321 gallons of water to make 500 sheets of paper
600 gallons of water to make 1 pound of cheese
66.57 gallons of water to make 1 gallon of biomass!
National Geographic "Hidden water that we use"
[Edited by: gamechanger2011 at 4/9/2012 8:27:38 AM EST]
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mr157ifhz
Sophomore Author
Gasbuddy
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 4:51:42 AM
The water coming OUT of an ethanol plant is cleaner than the water going IN. It is distilled after all. Don't think the same can be said from a petroleum refinery.....
-Matt
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Skipper52
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Massachusetts
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 4:39:25 AM
There is no need to put ethanol in the gas. It you want to create a ethanol engine then do that and let the consumer decide if they want to buy it.
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mr157ifhz
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Gasbuddy
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 4:31:33 AM
Unlike the water used in petroleum refining, the water used in ethanol production is returned to the environment unaltered. Hardly consumed, BORROWED would be much more accurate. Then again, the anti-ethanol crowd hardly ever concerns themselves with accuracy in their 'facts'.
-Matt
[Edited by: mr157ifhz at 4/9/2012 7:34:26 AM EST]
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rumbleseat
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Winnipeg
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 2:05:45 AM
Counting water that comes in the form of rain naturally falling upon the earth is as misleading as counting energy that comes from the sun as a cost of growing the corn.
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goldseeker
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West Virginia
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Message Posted: Apr 9, 2012 12:11:24 AM
""A gallon of ethanol, depending on irrigation practices, might require up to 2,100 gallons of water to produce."
Oh my, the sky is falling!!! When you start quoting the ecogeek blog site you really are getting desperate.
Hey whether you know it or not less than 15% of the US corn crop is irrigated. And only a portion of that irrigated corn is used for ethanol.
The rest of the corn and all other crops are irrigated by rainfall.
Do you know where oil comes from??????? I should not have asked you that, for you do not know much of anything.
So where does oil come from?
Oil is a fossil fuel.
Just as Coal is the remains of land plants that have been covered over by sand and then squashed into rock, Oil is formed from the remains of microscopic sea plants and sea creatures that died and fell to the floor of the ocean, there to be incorporated into the sediments.
Over time as these sediments are squashed and heated and the remains get changed into oil which flows out of these rocks and then accumulates in geological structures where it is trapped in the spaces between the mineral grains of the rocks.
Did you get that? Sea creatures. Now would you care to guess how many gega gallons of water that took? I thought so, for you don't have a clue, never have and never will.
Now what really gets me is that they really opened a can of worms when they mentioned Ghawar, which just happens to be the worlds largest known oil field.
The Saudis have developed Ghawar by using peripheral water, injection— water is pumped into the reservoir, driving the remaining oil to the surface. Would you care to guess how much water is injected into those wells on a daily basis?
Water is injected to support pressure of the reservoir (also known as voidage replacement), and to sweep or displace oil from the reservoir, and push it towards a well.
Normally only 30% of the oil in a reservoir can be extracted, but water injection increases that percentage (known as the recovery factor) and maintains the production rate of a reservoir over a longer period.
For some time Aramco has been maintaining pressure in the reservoirs of its Abqaiq field and at 'Ain Dar, the northern extension of the big Ghawar field, by use of water and gas. Aquifers (underground water-bearing formations) supply the liquid for water flooding, which is either injected at the surface or permeates down into the structure by gravity. Water injection refers to the method in oil industry where water is injected back into the reservoir, usually to increase pressure and thereby stimulate production. Water injection wells can be found both on- and offshore, to increase oil recovery from an existing reservoir. The first use of water injection to increase production from failing oil wells was in the states of New York and Pennsylvania in the early 1930s.
Did you get that? Water injection was used here in the states clear back in the 30s.
Also it is a well known fact that most water used in ethanol production is reclaimed and recycled. Some will go up and steam and fall back to earth as rain. The remaining will go through a water treatment facility and then be returned to the source.
However, with petroluem the waste water is soooo toxic that it is usually pumped into huge tailing ponds and left to set for decades, or it is pumped deep into the ground (Texas) where it is hoped it will not cause any problems.
I could go on and on, but it is very evident....you do not have a clue, never have and never will.
[Edited by: goldseeker at 4/9/2012 3:13:52 AM EST]
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antiguzzle
Sophomore Author
Wichita
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Message Posted: Apr 8, 2012 10:50:16 PM
W W W DOT transportation DOT anl DOT gov/pdfs/AF/557 DOT pdf"Figure 39 compares water consumption to produce a gallon of gasoline from the conventional and non-conventional crude sources examined in this study. As shown in the figure, net water use varies from less than 3 gallon in Ghawar (conventional technology) and Athabasca (SAGD) to nearly 7 gal in PADD V (conventional technology). Gasoline produced from multischeme
techniques in Peace River, as well as from conventional oil in North ‘Ain Dar, are close to this latter value.
***That's 3 to 7 gallons of water per gallon of gasoline folks.***
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"Biofuel feedstock production exhibits substantial regional differences. Consumptive water use for corn ethanol production varies significantly in the U.S. major corn-growing regions. As was shown in Table 5, excluding precipitation, producing a gallon of corn ethanol can consume as little as 10 or as much as 324 gallon of water, depending on the amount of irrigation water used for corn growing in the region in which it is harvested."
***That's 10 to 324 gallons of water used for ethanol production***
[Edited by: antiguzzle at 4/9/2012 1:51:16 AM EST]
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