PD
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 9:10:13 AM
go here
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plastic
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 6:01:25 AM
Interesting read, Scrapheap. Thanks for that.
No matter what the rule is, people are going to post the price on the sign whether it be cash or credit. In the case of signs that contain both prices... well that depends on the user's preference. Remember, most users do not visit this forum and are completely unaware of what's required.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 3:51:18 AM
When I joined it was credit.
[Edited by: scoutmaster at 5/2/2012 6:51:43 AM EST]
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Scrapheap
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 3:29:05 AM
It changed to credit on Jul 9, 2008. Except at that time there was actual involvement by the moderators and they had the courtesy to announce the change.
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plastic
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Message Posted: May 2, 2012 3:09:04 AM
When did it change to credit; before most of us were members?
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kwzh
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 11:49:57 PM
AccuPrice writes,
> It's always been that you post the [credit price]
No. The original rule was cash; it was changed to credit; and now it's changed back to cash.
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AccuPrice
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 11:32:18 PM
They're wishy washie on rules at the best.
It's always been that you post the standard/credit, but posting cash price was permissible if credit price was not readily available.
For the longest time, station owners have been getting away with unconscionable bait and switch practice by posting cash price, but deliberately hiding credit price. There was a member who's alleged to be an owner who would immediately scrub out credit pricing posted on particular stations.
Under the old rule which placed preference for standard/credit rule, he was getting away with removing credit price by noting the price he posted as "cash price". So, pursuant to precedence it should be equally acceptable to scrub out cash price as long as you properly note the posted price as "CREDIT".
There is a very good practical reason to only post one price. If you normally pay credit only, there is only so much you can mentally jot down, therefore if you only memorize the credit price on regular unleaded, you shall not be under any obligation to report second tier pricing or cash pricing.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: May 1, 2012 4:04:07 AM
"Animal, no one knows about the change to requiring the cash price to be posted; other than this insignificant-sized group of us."
What the heck does this mean?
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plastic
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 7:51:46 PM
Animal, no one knows about the change to requiring the cash price to be posted; other than this insignificant-sized group of us.
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bruin19MD
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Message Posted: Apr 30, 2012 7:32:30 PM
yup
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animal_rights
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Message Posted: Apr 29, 2012 9:29:34 AM
I agree, there should be a place for credit prices clearly indicated. All of the other posters in my area do not seem to understand how it works and they post the credit prices rather than the cash with the credit in the comments section. This condfusion would be cleared up with seperate boxes for cash & credit for each grade. I really hope to see this update soon!
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TxJeans
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Message Posted: Apr 26, 2012 4:32:51 AM
scoutmaster said: "There are still quite a few credit cards out there that don't offer cash back or some type of reward. There are also secured credit cards which are secured by a checking and/or savings account that have no rewards."
Some folks carry a balance. These folks look for the lowest interest rate they can find and often that means a no reward card. And, there are a LOT of folks that have to use Secured Cards to rebuild their credit after trashing it the last few years. Plus, students have a harder time getting a CC now than before and often have a secured card to start out. Plus, I suspect there are cards that the parents can load for the student to use where the parents can provide some emergency security cash and still maintain some control.
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RichWLIN
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 4:38:19 PM
yuck said: "I'd like to think that they scan these "talk back to us" threads once in a while to consider the different points of view."
Me too.
[Edited by: RichWLIN at 4/24/2012 7:38:44 PM EST]
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yuckandmuck
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 4:11:23 PM
No worries, RichWLIN. It's often difficult to interpret what these poll results actually indicate, but I do think the different perspectives offered up in threads like this help to shake out the possibilities. Whatever bearing this has on GB is up to the mods and I'd like to think that they scan these "talk back to us" threads once in a while to consider the different points of view.
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RichWLIN
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 2:59:18 PM
yuck, I don't disagree that non-rewards cards exist, just that I don't see them in the many offers that come in the mail here. I bet I've thrown away a half dozen or so offers every month for the last 10 years, and they all tout some kind of reward or another.
There are ~30% debit card users appearing either directly or indirectly in all previous polls. There are also 13-16% cash payers accounted for in each instance. Since we just found out that 54% of those polled use a card with some kind of reward, it follows then that the number of people voting that use non-reward type cards is relatively small.
I'm not trying to exclude people with this sort of credit, but the fact remains that people using non-rewards cards don't appear in large numbers if you put any stock at all in the poll results. We are in essence wasting our time trying to pick the fly shit out of the pepper. I certainly don't want to argue the facts.
None of this really matters with regard to the lop-sided number of people who swipe instead of paying cash.
RG
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yuckandmuck
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 1:51:45 PM
RichWLIN said:
"If the 43% who said no isn't largely comprised of cash and debit card purchasers (as all of the surveys suggest), then what other group of credit card purchasers is there?"
There are certainly credit cards out there that do not offer rewards. The basic one that my bank offers does not have any sort of rewards program attached to it (and the qualifications to get it are also lower). I had to specifically request a separate card (different card number, etc) which has "Rewards" in the title in order to get in on their rewards program. It's also possible that some folks who use credit aren't aware that their cards offer rewards, or they don't meet some requirement in order to take advantage of them.
[Edited by: yuckandmuck at 4/24/2012 4:55:14 PM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 11:03:38 AM
Right on the money yuckandmuck. I would agree. There are still quite a few credit cards out there that don't offer cash back or some type of reward. There are also secured credit cards which are secured by a checking and/or savings account that have no rewards.
Like I've stated earlier, I've been in the credit business for over 25 years and there are many flavors of credit available to just about everyone.
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RichWLIN
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 10:17:21 AM
yuckandmuck:
Again, I was going by the earlier 2007 and 2010 polls where 13% said cash, 30% of the respondents claimed that they used debit cards and another 50% or so used credit cards.
Last week we learned that 16% prefer cash and 81% credit or debit. These numbers are fairly consistent with the earlier polls except that the credit and debit number is combined and the 13% has grown to 16% cash.
You can see how the two recent polls have influenced the results somewhat; however, the numbers all add up pretty much the same. This weeks poll is fairly consistent as well.
Now to your point: If the 43% who said no isn't largely comprised of cash and debit card purchasers (as all of the surveys suggest), then what other group of credit card purchasers is there?
I don't know of any credit card company that doesn't offer some form of a reward program from 1-5% rebates and or other types of perks. Between my wife and I, we have used BOA Visa, AMEX, Discover, Chase Visa & MC, and most recently PenFed Visa, as well as a number of different gas station Visa and MC cards like BP and Marathon. Over the years, I've had several others; each and every one of them has some sort of reward program for purchases.
I'm not saying that some people aren't using obscure credit cards that don't offer any rebates (this is a possibility), but I would suggest that there aren't very many of them and certainly not enough to defy the results of all of these polls or put much of a dent in the 43%.
RG
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yuckandmuck
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 9:30:48 AM
Hmm, I read the poll results to mean that over half the respondents get some sort of reward or cash back when paying for fuel with their credit card. Based on feedback in threads like this one, such rewards often beat the savings one might get when paying with cash at stations with cash/credit price differences. It's also unknown how many of the 43% who responded with "No" pay with cash/debit vs credit w/no rewards. However, based on last week's poll results, it seem unlikely that most of the 43% typically pay with cash/debit.
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RichWLIN
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 6:01:45 AM
Fred/Ginger had something to say about my most recent post, and he/she is correct in pointing out that my first sentence was over-reaching. Of course, it wasn't the intent of the discussion or meaning of the subsequent several paragraphs, but in the interest of carping, I'll restate my opinion.
This week's poll question is a real eye opener if you consider that many of the 43% of those responding apparently use either a debit card or cash to pay for their fuel.
My statement results from gleaning of facts found in earlier polls that show approximately 30% as debit card users and another 13% as cash purchasers. Interestingly, this adds up to 43%; although, as in all polls there is an anticpated margin of error.
The current poll didn't break out the debit card users and instead lumped them in with the seemingly few remaining members who choose to use a credit card that offers nothing more than the ability to swipe at the pump.
Again, fault-finding in the first sentence of the post, although I suppose merited, is without understanding of or consideration for the intent and meaning found in several ensuing paragraphs of discussion. This waltzes around the context in which it was meant and is both pointless and argumentative.
RG
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 5:21:46 AM
What this week's poll is telling me is 54% of the people that pay with a credit card get something back. 43% that pay with a credit card don't get anything back or don't pay with a credit card. To assume the 43% only use debit cards or pay in cash is totally inaccurate.
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RichWLIN
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 5:06:29 AM
This week's poll question is a real eye opener if you consider that 43% of those responding apparently use either a debit card or cash to pay for their fuel.
This seems to indicate that a significant percentage of the GB community either can't or choose not to use credit cards as a function of their present financial condition.
Obviously, everyone participating here would like to pay the absolute least they can to fuel up their vehicles. Most would probably opt for a credit card that provides a 5% fuel discounts with no fees, interest or strings attached if they could. So, it follows then that the 43% or so who said they don't use a credit card offering a fuel rebate forego doing so out of necessity.
Using a debit card is essentially the same as paying with cash, except that some debit cards apparently charge a fee for use making them even less attractive and more costly. The 43% who don't or can't use credit cards with rebates suggests that the present economy is having a more adverse impact on people's buying habits than I imagined.
There is a shift towards paying for fuel with cash instead of credit, and while a 3% uptick doesn't seem like much, it amounts to hundreds of more poll participants than in the two previous polls. This increase, taken with the somewhat more constant percentage of debit card users suggests that our credit buying power as a whole is waning during the slumping economy.
This doesn't change my mind about reporting cash prices, but it should make us all aware that there is a trend.
RG
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 24, 2012 2:13:10 AM
"As far as I'm concerned these stations that charge credit for PIN transactions are skimming the money off the top."
Then you must feel the same way about single priced stations.
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CrackedLCD
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Message Posted: Apr 23, 2012 10:35:10 PM
As if the cash/credit conundrum isn't frustrating enough, I've discovered that some gas stations treat debit cards as credit even when you use a PIN. The local truck stop gives the cash price if you use a PIN because there's no percent-fee like a credit card. As far as I'm concerned these stations that charge credit for PIN transactions are skimming the money off the top.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 11:07:02 AM
Debit cards don't always incur a higher fee.
Who is "Mr Murphy"?
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TxJeans
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 10:52:17 AM
RichWLIN stated it pretty well.
There are folks that pay with cash because they choose to, and those that pay with cash because the can't get or handle a credit card. That said, many of those that don't have/use a CREDIT card, use a DEBIT card which also incurs higher fees unless used inside the store (by the by - those with Cash Back must, with most cards, use them at the PUMP to get the gas level cash back/reward).
There are folks that use CREDIT cards because they are floating loans to themselves in hard times. Some of these will come out the other side of their visit from "Mr. Murphy" and be able to pay back the high cost loans, others will default, negotiate a settlement or file BK. Then, there are those that carry a balance all the time but pay more than minimums and will continue to live that way until a visit from "Mr Murphy" pushes them over the edge financially. And, then there are those that use Credit Cards as good financial tools to their best benefit.
That said, the poll clearly showed the largest percent of users use cards and how the posted CASH price is a disservice to them. I would much rather, as a card user, get to a station to see that the price is LOWER than HIGHER.
But, the GB folks are right - fact is, with the mobile apps the cash price is likely the one getting posted. The question is if they even realize as they drive by if it is a dual price station. But, the only way to at least attempt to get the most accurate information is for GB to provide an easier way and more visible way to indicate if it is discounted price (cash, or other discount).
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RichWLIN
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 8:42:29 AM
Mario, I've been following this recent topic diversion with a bit of concern. Some folks have had their credit ruined after losing their life savings in investments or by losing employment during the economic downturn and slow recovery. People that pay with cash are not all deadbeats or losers who don't pay their bills. That said, I would agree that there are also some irresponsible people when it comes to credit of all kinds.
plastic said"...I pay with a credit card but I don't repay that loan month by month; I pay my entire balance each month- less the rebates that I earn from buying gas..."
This use of credit is essentially the same as paying cash, except plastic is availing himself of the discount offered by the credit card company for fuel purchases.
This is one of the least expensive and most convenient ways to pay for fuel. There are no fees or interest and obviously no need to carry large amounts of cash when traveling. Several banks offer up to 5% discount on fuel purchases, and at $4/gal. this amounts to $.20/gal. savings. Frankly, I'm a little surprised that more people haven't chimed in saying that they buy their gas this way. I do.
Just wanted to say this again, so that any apparent argument against using cash for purchases is understood from the perspective of the responsible user of a credit card that offers a significant fuel discount.
When the stations start offering a greater cash discount, I'll be among the first to pay with greenbacks. Until then, posting the cash discounted price doesn't seem practical for most of us.
RG
[Edited by: RichWLIN at 4/21/2012 11:43:53 AM EST]
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 8:21:57 AM
And you are using credit plastic because you are not paying for your purchase at the time of purchase. There are many different types of credit with many different repayment options.
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drunkhabib
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 7:39:21 AM
kw, well said
plas, amen brother
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plastic
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 6:59:14 AM
Mario, I pay with a credit card but I don't repay that loan month by month; I pay my entire balance each month- less the rebates that I earn from buying gas and other things.
>" It would make sense if the country had a uniform gas price posting policy..."
No, that'd be scary. Only two entities come to mind that would be able to foster such policy; the Federal government and the API.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 4:54:42 AM
Actually it's relevant everywhere kwzh. If you are posting cash prices without noting them in an area that has mostly single priced stations, you are doing a disservice to anyone who uses this site.
I would agree with MARIOWERX's definition of credit. When you pay later for something you buy today, that is paying on credit!
[Edited by: scoutmaster at 4/21/2012 7:54:54 AM EST]
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CrackedLCD
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Message Posted: Apr 21, 2012 1:12:26 AM
yuckandmuck: “However, it seems clear from responses some of us received from the GB mods, that the rationale had more to do with accommodating the posting habits of the growing majority of members who post via mobile GB apps. Most of these folks just post whatever prices are on the road signs (typically cash at stations with cash/credit differences) and these folks typically do not include comments. Whether or not we feel this was a good rationale for making the change, it does appear to be a primary reason for it.”
It would make sense if the country had a uniform gas price posting policy but instead it seems to vary not just from town to town but station to station.
*Most* stations in my neck o' the woods are one price, but a few sell diesel with a cash/credit difference and post the cash price. But then a few more post the credit price for ALL grades exclusively and don't mention anywhere that there's a cash discount until you either see it on the pump or go inside to pay.
At this point it'd be simpler for them to just say "post whatever's on the sign and note if it's cash/credit if you know it." Because that's what people are doing, anyway.
Between all this and all the fake price posters (I corrected a good 30 prices just this morning) the site's usefulness has taken a real nosedive. :/
One last intemperate thought: if most new users are using the mobile apps, then they can't even see the FAQ at all. The one other person I know who uses the app regularly has never even been to the website at all beyond signing up!
[Edited by: CrackedLCD at 4/21/2012 4:12:34 AM EST]
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kwzh
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 8:39:07 PM
scoutmaster writes,
> because some area of the country have a lot of dual priced stations while the majority don't
Places that don't have dual-priced stations are completely irrelevant, since no matter which policy is in effect, there's only one price to post. Similarly, in places that have *some* dual-priced stations and some not, only the former stations are relevant to the question.
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Katyzig
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 4:34:14 PM
I only have one place that gives you the option. I didn't think that was legal in PA
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MARIOWERX
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 4:21:20 PM
Well HB welcome to a USA indebted to China and a downgraded credit rating.
And plastic how I define credit:
When a borrower receives something of value (gas) now and agrees to repay the lender (the credit card company) later. When a consumer purchases something using a credit card, they are buying on credit (receiving the item at that time, and paying back the credit card company month by month)( not requiring the full amount to be paid back). Any time when an individual finances something with a loan (such as an automobile or a house), they are using credit in that situation as well. And then paying compound interest on the outstanding balance.
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drunkhabib
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 4:00:26 PM
and scrap, that makes perfect sense to me too.
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drunkhabib
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 3:59:24 PM
mario, cash is available to them..........they just arent intelligent enough to handle it. Hence they go broke.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 3:16:25 PM
Why change? Because a few pay with cash or because some area of the country have a lot of dual priced stations while the majority don't?????
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plastic
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 1:22:09 PM
Maybe the term "credit" isn't used in BC in the same that that it's used here. I'm having a little trouble nailing down your point, Mario but I think I see what you mean.
Yuck, GB posted their rationale for switching to cash. It makes sense from their point of view but it does not help the majority (apparently 81%) of the Gasbuddy membership.
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yuckandmuck
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 12:22:43 PM
scoutmaster said:
"Changing the reporting method to cash makes no sense."
If the rationale behind the change was to accommodate the majority of members' preferred payment method, then I would agree that the change made no sense.
However, it seems clear from responses some of us received from the GB mods, that the rationale had more to do with accommodating the posting habits of the growing majority of members who post via mobile GB apps. Most of these folks just post whatever prices are on the road signs (typically cash at stations with cash/credit differences) and these folks typically do not include comments. Whether or not we feel this was a good rationale for making the change, it does appear to be a primary reason for it.
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 11:38:33 AM
I've been in the credit business for over 25 years.
Almost anyone can get a credit card. Credit card debit is probably the main reason people file bankruptcy. They use them like they don't have to pay them back! They pay the minimum and as long as they are not late too much, the credit issuer will gladly let them use them. The issuer actually makes more money when people don't pay their balance in full and a little late. If a person files bankruptcy then they may be forced to pay cash.
A person would have to not make a payment for at least 90 days before a credit card issuer would revoke their card.
All that said, the overwhelming majority (based on the three surveys this site has done) pay for gasoline purchases with a credit card. Changing the reporting method to cash makes no sense.
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MARIOWERX
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 11:30:14 AM
Prior to defaulting or going bankrupt they have credit but little or no cash at this time for many credit is their only option.
I guess I see things differently than you see things, Scrapheap as I realize exactly what the term credit means.
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Scrapheap
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 10:48:32 AM
I guess I just don't get it. If someone defaults on their credit card, they will lose their credit card and not be able to purchase gas with a credit card. Hence cash will be their only option.
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MARIOWERX
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 9:28:54 AM
DH wrote "cash is still the only price available to everyone and always lowest. proprietary station cards may offer the equal price but its never the lowest pump price merely equal.
cash is available to all and always the lowest pump price, no brainer"
I was showing that cash is not available to everyone, again I hope you understand the concept that credit is used by most people who do not have the ability to pay in regards to loans , mortgages and credit cards.
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Scrapheap
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 9:12:49 AM
I'm not following what your point has to do with the discussion at hand. I'm not sure I even understand the point you are trying to make.
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MARIOWERX
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 8:45:31 AM
Take a second and think about it, Scrapheap they can even buy homes that get foreclosed on
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Scrapheap
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 8:06:15 AM
MARIOWERX wrote > Cash is not available to everyone as proven by those who default on Credit Cards that swipe and do not have the cash to pay.
Is this point relevant? Can these people even buy gas?
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scoutmaster
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Message Posted: Apr 20, 2012 2:17:33 AM
"cash is available to all and always the lowest pump price, no brainer"
Again, blanket statements are rarely correct. This one proves that point. MARIOWERX is correct.
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MARIOWERX
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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 4:18:59 PM
Cash is not available to everyone as proven by those who default on Credit Cards that swipe and do not have the cash to pay.
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drunkhabib
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Message Posted: Apr 19, 2012 4:06:50 PM
plas and byte, ive put the same jerk on ignore. Once he showed me his ignorance i was done.
cash is still the only price available to everyone and always lowest. proprietary station cards may offer the equal price but its never the lowest pump price merely equal.
cash is available to all and always the lowest pump price, no brainer
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