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fuelsaverMN Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,282 Points:559,080 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Mar 31, 2011 6:51:39 AM Ignore fuelsaverMN Report Abuse THink about it people. You never have to have the hastle of putting air in your tires and wondering if it's free or you pay for the air/ nitrogen is your answer for better mileage and it stays in your tires....yes....yes.....fuelsaverMN....Happy driving

fuelsaverMN

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Message Posted: Mar 31, 2011 6:51:39 AM

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THink about it people. You never have to have the hastle of putting air in your tires and wondering if it's free or you pay for the air/ nitrogen is your answer for better mileage and it stays in your tires....yes....yes.....fuelsaverMN....Happy driving

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PapaHomer Champion Author St. Louis Posts:2,245 Points:533,765 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jun 18, 2011 1:27:46 PM Ignore PapaHomer Report Abuse Air is 78% nitrogen. /wiki/Atmosphere_of_Earth If you had a free source of Nitrogen, it might be worth it.
3110plantation Veteran Author Georgia Posts:322 Points:104,630 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2011 10:06:58 PM Ignore 3110plantation Report Abuse Yes it works for me.
e46chris Rookie Author Houston Posts:41 Points:4,465 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 17, 2011 1:51:00 PM Ignore e46chris Report Abuse nitrogen more explosive?
baltipumps Rookie Author Baltimore Posts:22 Points:5,395 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: May 7, 2011 6:04:19 AM Ignore baltipumps Report Abuse air does work
GBMAX Champion Author Phoenix Posts:4,653 Points:1,901,605 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: May 4, 2011 5:48:11 AM Ignore GBMAX Report Abuse Advertisement?
DJS1938 Champion Author Erie Posts:3,922 Points:803,725 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: May 4, 2011 5:37:31 AM Ignore DJS1938 Report Abuse HOW MUCH DOSE COST TO FILL YOUR TIRES WITH NITROGEN ? I HAVE MY OWN COMPRESSOR IT DOSEN'T COST ME NOTHING.
gaswar01 Rookie Author Austin Posts:12 Points:19,445 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: May 4, 2011 2:07:23 AM Ignore gaswar01 Report Abuse what's the cost savings?
Z12 Champion Author Toledo Posts:3,657 Points:758,710 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: May 3, 2011 3:47:12 PM Ignore Z12 Report Abuse Good idea
MrCads Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:1,858 Points:675,175 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: May 3, 2011 3:15:17 PM Ignore MrCads Report Abuse I use strictly 78% nitrogen in the tires.
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,112 Points:653,855 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: May 2, 2011 7:42:23 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse Pure N2 does not seem to offer much when compared to 80% N2/20%O2 mix....
ricebike Champion Author New Jersey Posts:10,032 Points:1,855,720 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: May 2, 2011 6:43:44 AM Ignore ricebike Report Abuse i'm ok with my $5 plug-in compressor and i check my tires every month anyways, besides psi readings...
rjro Champion Author Albany Posts:1,237 Points:500,125 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: May 2, 2011 5:43:21 AM Ignore rjro Report Abuse I dont think it would be worth it. plus not all places have it yet.
rick_evans Champion Author Boston Posts:3,725 Points:1,033,730 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: May 2, 2011 4:34:35 AM Ignore rick_evans Report Abuse @acty--"Therefore, please stop your 'babbling.'" First a reminder to those with a high school knowledge of chemistry here is what acty posted: -- "Filling tire with nitrogen gives a harder tire compare to just compressed air because nitrogen molecules (Molar Mass: 14g/mol) are smaller than oxygen molecules (16g/mol)." 1. Molar mass has nothing to do with molar volume i.e. size. In fact the reason oxygen diffuse through rubber a little faster than nitrogen is the 'kinetic' diameter of O2 is smaller. A pdf from one of your own lobbying orgs notes this: http://www.getnitrogen.org/pdf/graham.pdf 2. The size of a molecule in an ideal or near ideal gas has nothing to do with the stiffness of a pressurized tire. 3. As mentioned by JimBlake56 what is being measured in the paper the difference in pressure change between N2 and Air over a 17 day period for tires pressurized to 49psi. It's a small 0.8% change. As noted in my April 10 post I have seen similar UP and DOWN pressure changes due to temperature. JimBlake56 also alluded to this in his post.
GLM4205 Champion Author Toledo Posts:4,057 Points:800,295 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: May 1, 2011 2:48:40 PM Ignore GLM4205 Report Abuse Yes. I bought my tires @ Bell Tire and that is what they put in the tires.
wdkwang Rookie Author New York Posts:34 Points:15,225 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 28, 2011 1:44:13 PM Ignore wdkwang Report Abuse not worth it
JimBlake56 Veteran Author Akron Posts:376 Points:75,060 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Apr 27, 2011 2:27:21 PM Ignore JimBlake56 Report Abuse Acty, after you mentioned it, I got that paper & read it. Near the beginning there's a statement about N2 maintaining pressure 35% to 55% better than shop dry air. When you look at the numbers it's like this... Over 17 days, there was 0.8% loss of pressure with air, a bit more than half that for N2. If you correct for the high pressures they used (49psi) and extrapolate to a month, you get 0.25 psi per month vs. 0.36 psi per month. So I'll acknowledge that O2 diffusion through the tire carcass has a higher rate than N2 diffusion. Pressure change caused by a 5-degree change in temperature (70F to 75F) is about that same amount. There is no statement whatsoever about N2 being immune to gas laws. Being an engineering school, I'm glad they didn't claim that. Then the paper discusses the well-established effect of pressure on rolling resistance. But here it gets real interesting. They do a lot of their testing on trucks, with tire pressures around 100 psi. In section 5.2.1, they claim 70% less rolling resistance with N2. But reading the rest of the paper it's clear they can only claim a 70% improvement in the INCREASE in rolling resistance. That rolling resistance is not due to any fluid properties of N2, it's only due to lower diffusion loss through the tire. They didn't measure rolling resistance on the trucks, they only measured the decreased tire pressures. Nitrogen rolling resistance increased 0.46% over the 2-week test period based on a 2.3% drop in tire pressure. Air rolling resistance increased 1.66% over the 2-week period based on an 8% drop in tire pressure. Sure, 0.46% increase is 72% better than a 1.66% increase, but they're both pretty small. Sure, it tells us that it's important to maintain the proper tire pressure. But seeing the actual numbers paints a different picture.
mtristan Rookie Author Worcester Posts:33 Points:50,900 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 25, 2011 6:13:07 PM Ignore mtristan Report Abuse I would have to see a dramatic difference in the Nitrogen use over air in the tires to pay the extra $$$ to convert
acty Rookie Author Boston Posts:35 Points:22,640 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2011 4:48:02 PM Ignore acty Report Abuse To those who believe that filling nitrogen in your tires will not help the fuel economy of the vehicle, i.e., rick_evans, a research, titled: TIRE NITROGEN FILLING SYSTEM, done by the Department of Mechanical Engineering at Clemson University had shown positive result on this topic. Scholars' conclusion: "...nitrogen filled tires has a positive effect on vehicle fuel economy and tire performance." Therefore, please stop your "babbling."
SCubedSound Rookie Author Michigan Posts:24 Points:18,500 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Apr 21, 2011 5:48:22 AM Ignore SCubedSound Report Abuse Not sure that O2 is the cause of dry cracks on a tire. They don't have those dry cracks inside the tire. And most tires have pressurized O2 forcing the O2 molecules into the rubber. They still look new on the inside. If the air compressor is configured properly (most are not) there should be filters on them. Especially moisture filters to eliminate the water vapors that destroy air tools and fills your tires with water. I don't think there is enough moisture in the compressed air to cause a tire to be out of balance.
dontuknowOH Champion Author Ohio Posts:2,099 Points:36,585 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2011 4:54:48 AM Ignore dontuknowOH Report Abuse I've had Egg on my chin before,and felt sad after knowing later,so check them tires often, other Drivers are watching your tires,shaking their heads maybe? I't sad to be running a low pressure tire,no respect! HUH? LOL
silverG Champion Author New Jersey Posts:4,888 Points:1,343,660 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Apr 19, 2011 4:33:51 AM Ignore silverG Report Abuse Yes. I bought my tires @ Costco and that is what they put in the tires.
biire2u Sophomore Author Akron Posts:107 Points:15,610 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2011 8:33:03 PM Ignore biire2u Report Abuse As many have noted, air is already 79.5% nitrogen, and about 20% oxygen. The nitrogen molecule is actually a smaller molecule than a oxygen molecule, so it actually will migrate thru the walls of the rubber tire quicker than the oxygen will. The reason for nitrogen filling is more for the inertness of nitrogen. Just like when they fill food containers and remove the oxygen and replace it with nitrogen, it makes the food have a much longer shelf life. Oxygen eventually destroys rubber. Have you ever seen those dry cracks on tires that have been sitting a long time? That is from the effects of the UV light in sunlight but also it is from the oxidation of the carbon bonds in the rubber which eventually makes rubber become brittle. Now inside the tire it is worse with the oxygen. Since the pressure is 30-40psi or more, (over 100 psi for trucks) the extra pressure equates to a much higher oxygen concentration eating the inside of the tire. When the tire has been run for a long time the temperature gets to be 200F or higher, along with the high pressures of air with 20% oxygen and these are good conditions to oxidize and make the tire brittle from the inside. On truck tires, they especially gain with nitrogen filling because of the extra high pressure they run in the tires. Truck tires are also on the road much longer time periods than car tires so the N2 fill really helps extend the life of the truck tire. The nitrogen has nothing to do with higher mileage. It is for it's inertness and dryness. (Frozen water vapor in a tire from regular air can make the tire be out of balance)
tonhew Rookie Author Ontario Posts:13 Points:1,260 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2011 7:46:15 PM Ignore tonhew Report Abuse As a mechanic, nitrogen is thought to be a set it and forget it deal, it does have its advantages but not for mileage.
den73160 Rookie Author Oklahoma City Posts:23 Points:385,935 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2011 1:26:55 PM Ignore den73160 Report Abuse nitrogen like any other compressed gas has a cost which is passed on to the consumer.....ME. Not thanks!
gvan Champion Author Chicago Posts:21,533 Points:2,836,290 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2011 11:02:56 AM Ignore gvan Report Abuse "Maybe the nitrogen helps with gas mileage, but how do you feel it handles? I've drive a Ford Focus with nitrogen and find it to be a bad ride." Have you checked the tire pressure since nitrogen was added? Maybe they overinflated the tires so you would get better mpg and think it was from nitrogen. I had a vehicle that was riding rough and when I checked the tire pressure the oil change place had put 40 psi in the tires.
cmanzi77 Rookie Author Philadelphia Posts:80 Points:65,010 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2011 6:10:21 AM Ignore cmanzi77 Report Abuse There is so much research done on this. It however DOES NOT improve mileage. It merely makes the tire pressure more sustainable.
v8gazguzler Champion Author Ottawa Posts:5,940 Points:884,385 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2011 6:00:09 AM Ignore v8gazguzler Report Abuse Nitrogen did nothing to improve the mileage on my truck.. It did however leave my wallet $30 poorer. It's a gimmick and "SCubedSound" hit it right on the money. The only place where nitrogen works well is in those big tires on most airliners as nitrogen doesn't expand or condense as much when a plane is at 40,000 feet and it is -85 degrees outside.
Berghammer Sophomore Author Wisconsin Posts:113 Points:12,775 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2011 2:33:32 AM Ignore Berghammer Report Abuse What a great topic, I learned a lot! Thanks.
rick_evans Champion Author Boston Posts:3,725 Points:1,033,730 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Apr 18, 2011 1:03:45 AM Ignore rick_evans Report Abuse @Acty babbled -- "Filling tire with nitrogen gives a harder tire compare to just compressed air because nitrogen molecules (Molar Mass: 14g/mol) are smaller than oxygen molecules (16g/mol)." Please stop posting nonsense. The n in PV=nRT depends on the number of molecules in the tire. It's P that gives the tire its stiffness or hardness and P only depends on the number of molecules in the gas.
timmyC4 Veteran Author Twin Cities Posts:417 Points:60,600 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Apr 17, 2011 12:49:12 AM Ignore timmyC4 Report Abuse Ya.. think about it people ! I fill my tires with water.
SCubedSound Rookie Author Michigan Posts:24 Points:18,500 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Apr 16, 2011 12:24:14 PM Ignore SCubedSound Report Abuse All it does is give lazy people a false sense of security thinking that It's one more thing they can forget about. I've heard this one before. "I had them filled with Nitrogen. Why did it go flat?" Insert questions to ask yourself. ---> Is that 100% N they are adding to my tires? Are my tires now 100% N when they are done? Are we that lazy that we cannot check our tires regularly? Insert logic here. ---> Air is made up of 70.09% N, 20.95% O2 and 8.96% other stuff. Compress the natural atmospheric air and we still have the same percentages. What is the volume of the tire? They cannot vacuum the air out of the tire without breaking the bead on the tire. So when they let the air out of your tire you still have atmospheric pressure in the tire. They cannot remove the O2 from the tire unless the tire is mounted in a special room that is filled with 100% N. DOESN'T HAPPEN. Theory. ---> Nitrogen does not expand nor contract as much as O2 due to changes in temperature. Atmospheric air, on average, changes 1 psi per 10 degree temp change. On Average. If temp rises 10 degrees then expect your tire pressure to gain 1 psi. -10 degrees = -1 psi. A sealed tire holds atmospheric air as well as pure nitrogen. If it goes flat It's because of a leak. A leak that will let out the nitrogen also. If not then all you have to do is keep filling your tires if they have a leak and eventually there will be nothing left but nitrogen in them because only the O2 leaked out. Silly concept. The problem you now face. ---> Oil change places supposedly top off your tires and bring them back up to the recommended pressure. More like they add air to your tires according to what their own vehicle specs are. It's probably the wrong pressure and they might be even make all 4 equal. But if you have a green cap they won't touch your tires even if it is flat. Now, IF they report a flat to you, you have to find a place that will air your tire with nitrogen for you. If you don't know about it and you lose control of your vehicle because you cannot find a nitrogen recharge station then who is to blame? Tire store? Oil change place? McDonald's because you spilled your coffee and it didn't say hot on the cup.
acty Rookie Author Boston Posts:35 Points:22,640 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 16, 2011 6:29:22 AM Ignore acty Report Abuse Filling tire with nitrogen gives a harder tire compare to just compressed air because nitrogen molecules (Molar Mass: 14g/mol) are smaller than oxygen molecules (16g/mol). Base on the ideal gas law: PV=nRT, since V, R, and T are the same, increase in n leads to increase in P(pressure of the tire). However, the effect is so small that most people would not have noticed.
Rocketmann Rookie Author Colorado Posts:4 Points:7,930 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 13, 2011 6:52:44 AM Ignore Rocketmann Report Abuse I really have not seen any improvement in gas millage and I have to find a place that will fill it. Total pain in the ash if you commute and get in town late everyday.
rick_evans Champion Author Boston Posts:3,725 Points:1,033,730 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Apr 12, 2011 1:19:36 PM Ignore rick_evans Report Abuse @dyndsaykr babbled "Nitrogen is inert,.." Chemistry 101: If nitrogen were inert you wouldn't exist. Amino acids the building blocks of proteins are called amino because of the nitrogen they contain. "...and yes the main benefit it the removal of all the other crap that`s in the air. " So are you holding your breath to avoid inhaling all that crappy oxygen.
lyndsaykr Rookie Author Ontario Posts:21 Points:69,795 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 12, 2011 10:25:18 AM Ignore lyndsaykr Report Abuse Had nitrogen in a set of tires for 4 years and NEVER see any pressure change. Nitrogen is inert, and yes the main benefit it the removal of all the other crap that`s in the air. Nitrogen molecules are larger than air molecules and dont migrate thru rubber as easy as the others. And at Costco they purge the tires filling and dumping the tires at least twice to remove as much crap as possible. Btw I would never pay extra for it.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,053 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Apr 11, 2011 9:57:00 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse If you can get N2 for free, it wont hurt anything, but if you pay $70 it will hurt your wallet.
yuhoo22 Sophomore Author Long Island Posts:105 Points:85,150 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 11, 2011 9:37:06 AM Ignore yuhoo22 Report Abuse dealer offered this to me....$70 bucks?!?! I will continue to use air
jes89 Rookie Author Toronto Posts:14 Points:2,255 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 11, 2011 6:37:11 AM Ignore jes89 Report Abuse just another money grab
CruiserKY Champion Author Lexington Posts:3,005 Points:143,815 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Apr 11, 2011 6:32:13 AM Ignore CruiserKY Report Abuse I got nitrogen with my new tiers a"free" service. But after 6 months they needed more air/nitrogern to maintain the rater pressure.
rick_evans Champion Author Boston Posts:3,725 Points:1,033,730 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2011 9:52:54 AM Ignore rick_evans Report Abuse Just yesterday I checked my tires with the local Mobil stations free digital air pump. It simultaneously pressure checks and adjusts your tire pressure. It had been a month since I checked. It actually lowered the pressure. WOW it must be that oxygen somehow sucks in more air and makes the pressure rise. What? What did you hoot ... pause .... Oh the owl on my left shoulder just whispered PV=nRT. Oh it was cold a month ago and today it's warm.
the1roadhog Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,908 Points:2,055,805 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2011 4:44:46 AM Ignore the1roadhog Report Abuse Interesting but why hasn't this idea gone into the mainstream with tire stores offering same?
Boyrr Champion Author Allentown Posts:15,181 Points:3,163,880 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Apr 10, 2011 3:13:43 AM Ignore Boyrr Report Abuse it might be good for a FA-18, ... but for a car, like, save your money Dude,
Brentmeister Rookie Author Dallas Posts:65 Points:50,110 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2011 8:07:30 PM Ignore Brentmeister Report Abuse It is a scam- room air is 80% nitrogen...
CanadaPanda Veteran Author Ontario Posts:369 Points:91,640 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 9, 2011 6:11:26 PM Ignore CanadaPanda Report Abuse "The idea behind nitrogen is not because its lighter, its because it doesent expand and contract as much with temperature changes, ie. fast driving to slow driving, and extended highway driving." As far as car tires are concerned, all gasses expand and contract at the same rate, be it nitrogen or air or helium. Racing teams typically receive nitrogen in compressed air tanks where the air is dry. This removes moisture from inside the tire, which is no issue for a passenger car, but at the very high temperatures seen in racing, could turn to steam and increase tire pressures unpredictably. I use an air dryer on my compressor lines to reduce (but not eliminate) moisture going into my tires as I use balancing beads. Compressed nitrogen would be great for me, but is too cost and storage prohibitive. I'm not sure if the Costco-style compressors that pull nitrogen from the air using a filter membrane also remove moisture. [Edited by: CanadaPanda at 4/9/2011 9:12:35 PM EST]
bluemirage188 Rookie Author Connecticut Posts:48 Points:43,285 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Apr 8, 2011 6:39:44 AM Ignore bluemirage188 Report Abuse i think that nitrogen is a good idea for high perfomance tires and motorcycles. Normal everyday cars it makes no difference. The idea behind nitrogen is not because its lighter, its because it doesent expand and contract as much with temperature changes, ie. fast driving to slow driving, and extended highway driving. Race cars only use nitrogen, as well as most motorcycles that depend on correct tire pressures to operate consistently. The tire pressures and tire geometry remain much more consistent when using nitrogen and it is not intended to give you better fuel mileage. That 22% isnt going to help your crappy car handle better either. As VALEVIPER stated, having proper inflation is far more crucial than having a little extra nitrogen in the tire.
ValeViper Rookie Author Montreal Posts:6 Points:31,720 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2011 10:00:12 PM Ignore ValeViper Report Abuse There is a sucker born every minute......... Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.039% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases..Do you really believe another 22% will make that much difference? Answer: NO Keeping your tires inflated to the proper levels and making sure your alignment is good are the only things needed to keep maximum performance from your tires.
CanadaPanda Veteran Author Ontario Posts:369 Points:91,640 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Apr 7, 2011 9:31:37 PM Ignore CanadaPanda Report Abuse Corrosion inhibition, perhaps, but I have never seen a tire rot from the inside out, nor have I seen a wheel rust from the inside of the rim before the rest of it was unfit for service.
JimBlake56 Veteran Author Akron Posts:376 Points:75,060 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Apr 6, 2011 9:38:48 AM Ignore JimBlake56 Report Abuse Abbie, I think it's the tires. In fact if those are the factory tires on a new car, then probably it's the car's suspension tuning too. Nitrogen doesn't behave much different than air. It's molecular weight is only a few percent different than the average MW of air. The advantage in your tires is corrosion not the other stuff.
Abbie2011 Rookie Author Jacksonville Posts:4 Points:16,130 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Apr 4, 2011 4:40:05 PM Ignore Abbie2011 Report Abuse Maybe the nitrogen helps with gas mileage, but how do you feel it handles? I've drive a Ford Focus with nitrogen and find it to be a bad ride. But I'm not sure if it's the nitrogen or the manufacuter's installed tires.
VetteBlue Champion Author San Jose Posts:8,023 Points:1,612,720 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Apr 4, 2011 6:32:13 AM Ignore VetteBlue Report Abuse Complete waste of time and money.